Whatcha gonna do brother? When Windows 12 descends on you!

[bert22306]

In case anyone is still focused on the Windows 12 topic:

What actually came in "late 2024" is Windows 11 24H2, available already to Windows Insiders. Just adds some AI stuff, like Copilot.

It was a little iffy to update directly from 23H2. I ended up just reinstalling from the ISO disc image, which is really no big deal.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/what-to-expec...s-and-more

The next major update to Windows won't be called Windows 12. It will be called Windows 11 24H2, for second half of 2024, and it will show up sometime this fall and be based on a new platform codenamed "Germanium." But odds are that we will eventually see a Windows 12 at some point. Microsoft hasn’t officially commented on whether it's developing Windows 12, but indicators suggest that it's coming at some point. ...

Then they talk about the original thinking on major Windows version updates, with poeople speculating about end of 2024. And they say,

But all that has changed. The wildcard was the departure of longtime Windows boss Panos Panay, which resulted in a restructuring of the Windows version-numbering schedule. It seems that the new team wants to wait to put its own stamp on a future release.

Another consideration is that Windows 11 has only just passed 33% market share among Windows versions, with Windows 10 still ahead of it with 63%. Introducing another version would split up the pie further, especially considering the glacial pace many people are taking to upgrade.

They don't mention how MS relented on the strict PC CPU generation compliance requirements.

As to ads, subscriptions, etc:

Eagle-eyed code watchers have noticed references to "subscription edition," "subscription type," and "subscription status" in the code for a Windows Insider build in the Canary channel (the earliest release channel). These references have led to speculation that Microsoft will require a subscription for the OS in the future—and perhaps PC prices would be lower as a result. Further speculation has it that a free, ad-supported version of Windows 12 might be available as well.

But that's truly all just speculation. A stronger possibility is that these references to subscriptions are for business users, similar to the already available Windows 365 Cloud PC option. Even Bowden published an article debunking the subscription rumor.

A subscription requirement would surely result in outrage from longtime Windows users. That's what happened when Adobe Photoshop first moved to a subscription model. Users eventually paid up, however, boosting Adobe's profits and enabling the company to develop impressive new features for the imaging software.

To me, all of this is déjà vu. Every new Windows release comes with a litany of disgruntled users, even some who insist that only every other Windows release is worth installing. I personally agree that Windows 8 was dumb, designed mainly for tablets, but that aside, ho hum, they each did improve on the previous version.

[Pete]

@bert22306

Nice read...

As far as reducing the price of PC and laptop devices, well, manufactures currently only cough up about $65 to $95. What itty-bitty pretty ****y savings consumers would get from that would be far offset by the money spent to use it. 

What I think we need is the camp inside MS, who presently support moving to a subscription service, to either completely back off, or completely change their nature and offer users a non-subscription license, as we have now, as well. I'd like to think it we will end up in one of these two directions in the future and not have to make any changes, but this thread is to explore the what if reactions if they don't.

Pete

[JRace]

Don't forget <CTRL><ALT><DEL> for Task Manager if you need it.

----

My current daily driver is Win7 64-bit Pro.  It is far from perfect, but it's usable.  Win8 was a WTF right from the start, and MS's "fixes" were too little/too late IMO.  I barely tolerate Win10, and then only when I need to for work.

Win11 is not just a step downward... MS fell headlong down the stairs.  Win11is not allowed to stink up my home.

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M$ has been using very agresssive dark patterns lately, with intrusive upgrade banners & ads everywhere.  They have been testing the market and getting people accustomed to it.  Either user backlash will force MS to back down on that crap, or enough users will accept it to make it worthwhile for MS.  Giant corporations like MS don't care about individuals; their money comes from corporate users and the masses.

----

I long suspected the existence of two Windows development teams, with only one of those teams being competent.  The good team would release its latest (good!) version of Windows, and then the other guys would get to have the next release.

Now it seems to me that all the competent team may have been broken up.

[Pete]

And J's one of their best reviewers! I've always said MS is a 5-star company, and one of those stars is half shaded in.

+2 for your review!

To me, I wish we had a real buy it now option, instead of this bullshit licensing crap. Could you imagine paying for a car and seeing some jerk off mechanic in your driveway at 2:00 AM in the morning who was lifting the hood to 'update' your perfectly working engine?

Pete

[bert22306]

Don't forget <CTRL><ALT><DEL> for Task Manager if you need it.

Naw. Just right click on the task bar.

Actually, that was one useful feature originally missing in Windows 11, even though it existed in Windows 10. I bitched. No doubt, other bitched too, and it got fixed before too long.

Similarly, Windows 11 has a new "Outlook for Windows" email client. It comes with Windows 11, not part of Office. Damned if you couldn't even copy and paste text into the email client, without using some crazy scheme with symbols up on the title bar. Not in the least intuitive, either.

I bitched, no doubt others did too, and it got fixed. Now you just right click and choose "copy" and then "paste." Like all civilized people do. This email client is much better than the original "mail" that came with Windows 11, but not as good as the full-featured Windows Live Mail that came with (I think) Windows 7.

Really bothers me when MS assumes that "the average user" is too stooopid to use a decent app.

Sometimes, even often, MS will introduce changes "just for the sake of change."

[Pete]

Don't forget <CTRL><ALT><DEL> for Task Manager if you need it.

Naw. Just right click on the task bar...

That works for most ordinary instances, but like I pointed out in my post, those assholes make their popup completely cover your desktop, task bar included. The only other way out is to click the 'Learn More' or 'Remind Annoy Me Later' button.

Pete

[TerryRitchie]

Terry, if we could just clone you into half the population of America, I think most of our problems would be solved. Of course all the hot women would then be spoken for... and that would really piss me off!  

Seriously, the whole sheep thing upsets me too. By the way, for those of you have experienced that end of support message, it is generated from a process called: 

Reusable UX interaction manager

That annoying message hijacks your entire desktop, including the task bar, and it does not have a close 'X' or close button. Alt +F4 didn't get rid of it for me. Since I always run Task manager, I had to use Alt+Tab to get get to Task Manager and close it. It has 'pooped' up three additional times since I first reported it, just like Steve the Amazing, said it would. I need to ask Steve if he sees a new pair of shoes in my future, because I intend to put the ones I'm currently wearing in MicroSoft's ASCII.

Edit: In regards to Linux, I checked Dell to see if they have any preinstalled packages. They do, but get this, 1 regular version and 3 A.I. versions. The 'regular' version is $1,100, but get this, the A.I. versions will set you back between $6000, and $8000. Obviously the prudent buyer would be better off hoping to figure out how to wipe a PC and install a copy of Linux from the internet. Sure, Steve and I can easily afford the A.I. versions, and I'm sure a lot of us older coders could, as well, but what would we be paying for? My guess is I'd get some damn female A.I. that would refuse to shut down because 'it' was right in the middle of streaming Robocop, or worse... The View.  On the good news side, the cost for older Windows software has shrank considerably over the years, but I don't know if there would be problems with the license key.

Pete

Find yourself a good off-lease i7 6th or 7th gen CPU with at least 16GB of RAM. They are dirt cheap and Linux screams on them. Bonus, no AI crap either.

Here's an idea of prices for these things:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176462334300

Add an nVidia 960 or 1050 video card with 4GB of VRAM (these are dirt cheap now too) and you'll have yourself one heck of a nice Linux system.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/126580035399

$200 total for both an off lease i7 6700K with 16GB of RAM and a NEW nVidia 960GTX 4GB video card. Again, Linux would SCREAM on a system like this and you'll have zero driver issues too.

[SpriggsySpriggs]

You can always get a lobotomized ISO for Windows.

[bert22306]

I don't know the details about how this security stuff works. One thing Windows 11 wants is virtualization-based security (VBS), memory integrity, to protect the kernel from malware attacks.

Older CPUs, such as my previous Intel Core i7-6700, this feature can be enabled easily enough, but then you get a bit of a performance hit. I run two separate performance measuring programs, one number crunching and the other graphics, and both showed an impact. Although in daily use, I must say, I saw no performance problem.

It seems that this performance issue got resolved, beginning with some Intel Core 7th generation CPUs and all 8th gen and newer. Some of what BIOS had to emulate in the older CPUs is now done in hardware, "Mode-Based Execution Control virtualization," or MBEC.

So, my experience, this did appreciably help the results of my two test programs, but where I really noticed a difference was in the installation time required for those bloated Windows Cumulative Updates. It went from a pretty reliable30 minutes, with the 6th gen Core i7, by the time the update was complete, to more like 10 minutes or so in 8th and 12th gen Intel Core CPUs. How much is attributable to MBEC? How much to having an SSD in the newer PCs, vs HDD? I don't know.

Honestly, that's the one really useful performance upgrade, for me. The big updates, even a reinstallation of Windows, becomes much less painful.

All this long-winded post to ask, does Linux not have similar security concerns? Don't Linux machines also want to enable something analogous to VBS? And if they do, wouldn't they also experience performance issues, with the older CPUs?

[CharlieJV]

Windows in my home disappeared when Windows XP support ended.

Then I went with Puppy Linux for about five years.

Since then, I sold my soul to Google and mine became a Chromebooks-only household.

This thread reminds me why I got out of Windows at home.  Kudos to the lot of you who power through those, from these beholding eyeballs, headaches.