How about low-brow?

[SMcNeill]

Third, if you want to do as Magdha suggests and work on commands from start to finish...

Eh?  I don't think that I suggested anything of the sort.

In the end, this is Steve's baby (and lovingly cradled & cared for by him) & the best thing to do is as he says.  There's enough pre-existing stuff so very well prepared for the beginners.  The Beginners' Corner was merely a suggestion.

Sorry... It was a reply to multiple people posting in a row.  Let me see if I can make it make a little more sense:

Petr posts: " I propose an alphabetical list of all commands and their usage in a thread aimed at newbies."
Then you post: "I suspect that most (all?) members will think, having read Phil's post, oh yes we should be doing that..."

And then I mentioned: " if you want to do as Magdha suggests and work on commands from start to finish...."

Which would have probably been better if I'd used Petr's name there instead of yours, but hey!  What can I say?  Steve is human and can misattribute references/people/quotes/and other stuff too!   

My point was:  Just build on what exists and add to it, rather than try to start everything all blank and new from the ground up.  That logic at least, I hope, stands up regardless of who I was rambling on about "GIT OFF ME YARD!!"   

 

[PhilOfPerth]

Thanks all for the responses. I didn't intend (or expect) to stir up disagreements among members; I was just voicing my concern for the future of the group, and I think Magdha's response was closest to the mark on what would improve our chances.

At first glance, the Today's Posts"  page must be quite intimidating to the newcomer who wants to "wet their feet" in something new, but if they could see that there are  ways to write simpler, "BASIC" programmes, then they may be encouraged to continue. Which is where something like a Beginners Corner - or something a bit less patronising - might come in.

@Jack: It was not a slip on my part; I have a fairly decent understanding of electronics, having been a Supervising Technician in Telecom, and spending several years designing, repairing and installing security systems as a personal business. I don't pretend to have the depth of knowledge that you or others here may have, but when I see a question that I may be able to help with, I respond.

[Sprezzo]

We wouldnt be properly talking past each other if ole sprezzo doesnt chime in.

Everyone makes great points. Even steve. The content is here, its there, its everywhere. Everyone is aware the forums are made to be impossible to navigate with pleasure. Anyone used to it has stockholm syndrome. Steve will never change how it is. Too much work, not enough know-how, too much spite. The forums are staying.

To synthesize what everyone wants, go ahead and make the defacto qb64 webpage. Did you know that putting a www. in front of qb64phoenix brings you to a proper atrium? The forums don't need to be the homepage. Talk to grymmjack about this. Anyway, on there you can have the noob-friendly face you want that simply points back to the mess that is the forums where all the "data" is.

I won't charge for this session but my next reply aint free. Speaking of not free, you can buy qb64pe.com, qb64pe.net, and qb64.org for the same money you spend weekly at McDonalds.

[PhilOfPerth]

Huh???
Not sure what all that last post was about, but my McDonalds fee wouldn't buy any of those, and I wouldn't bother trying!   

[bplus]

I agree...and to me QB64 is dead already! But my assessment is on other users interactions and responses to my post i cant say this is everyone's interpretation...

Its whole premise was to support old QBasic code on modern systems, and for that its 90% fine...my issue is that that people who want/use it for this ideal dont grasp its true functionality! EVEVRYTHING IS GL BASED AND C++ at runtime and this either scares or annoys purist's (In my view they should use dosbox) and as such they PUSH modern devs away and think that somehow they can still compete! LIKE COME ON! (Suck it up and grow a pair and learn how to REALLY CODE!!)

I now HATE most of this community as i find them not willing to praise or even acknowledge code that isnt QB64 pure (even though it all C++!) and weve gone back to the Cola days again! (A group of biddies who ignore the people they dont like or who intimidate them!)

Again, My opinion as i know is not something anyone cares about! But i helped make this language long before 90% of the current people even knew of it!

Unseen

This looks like the pot calling the kettle black!

"QB64 is dead already!" "I now HATE most of this community..." WTH? man why hang around then? Fork it! if not happy.

And Spazzo, jesus, you two sound elitist, see yourself as superior to the majority here. Is your middle name Steve? b+LOL!
Who doesn't see themself superior to others, but most of us have good sense to leave that ship behind when posting a reply.

I am curious Unseen contribution to language before 90% knew of it. What? did Unseen create QBasic?

BTW This biddy is using AI more thanks to leader influence that happens when not in nasty mode.

So @PhilOfPerth you like this "low brow" bitchyness? I hope not.

One more thing: Happy Valentines Day my loves!

[NakedApe]

I gotta agree with bplus on this. To say you HATE anyone for not praising or acknowledging your posted code here is over the top. The first game I put up on the forum got a lot of attention along with praise and some criticism. The second game though got very little notice - except by Steve (whom I bugged to give it a go) and Unseen himself who was very kind in his comments. My point is you never know what sort of feedback you'll get if any and having a thicker skin about it is healthy. Our coding should be for ourselves, an end in itself. Steve posted a few things recently and I didn't respond or see anybody else say much, so the lack of feedback isn't unique to certain individuals.

As an intermediate programmer who has gleaned a whole lot by being here, I appreciate the chance to learn and show off my stuff, but without great expectations about responses. It would be cool if more new members joined and discovered the fun of programming in BASIC, but I think it's a pretty sweet scene right now. Let's  not dis what we've already got.

[SMcNeill]

People not responding is rather common and usual, in my experience, when it comes to shared code, and it's not an unique experience for anyone and nobody is being singled out and excluded.

Since Steve(tm) seems to be getting mentioned a lot as an example for some reason, lets take a moment and look at some of Steve's Stuff(tm)

https://qb64phoenix.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=22  <-- The libraries Steve has shared.  

There's 9 libraries and between them all they have 38 replies.  That's an average of... 4 per library -- and you have to keep in mind that Steve is a very interactive person and tends to respond to anyone who posts, so I'd say half of those are mine.  If you take a second moment and actually LOOK at the discussions (such as for the Text to Speech which has the most replies), you'll see that...

.... there's almost NO talk about the actual library.   Dimster posted wanting one change.  Spriggy posted suggesting Speech-to-Text, which got a few replies.  Pete posted Peteily.  But as for comments on what was shared itself?   Almost non-existent.

And yet it's had 287 downloads, which I figure is a pretty good number.  That's 287 people (or bots) who decided to make a copy of it and who haven't never had it screw up bad enough that they felt the need to jump back into the topic and scream, "YOU BROKES MY STUFF!!! RAHHRRR!!!!"

Folks respond to what the need help with or what interests them.   << This is the golden rule of posting and responses.

You can share all the C-source code in the world that you want, but the vast majority of people who come here, came here to use BASIC and not C.  They honestly couldn't care less about the backend stuff.  Sure, they know we can access it.  They're happy to see other people doing stuff with it.  But they don't want to learn a second language just to expand the flexibility of the first language.  They're just not interested, and since they don't have anything BAD to say about what you're doing, they don't have a need to say ANYTHING at all.

So you end up with stuff like this:

Steve posts a topic on 3d keyboard keys -- https://qb64phoenix.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4465  This has 54 views and ZERO replies.  But you know what???

STEVE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT!!

I didn't code it for anyone else to use.  I didn't code it looking for praise or pats on the head or cookies or accolades.  I didn't code it for people to snub and tell me it was a waste of time either.  I....  and this might be hard for folks to comprehend....  but  GASP!!  I coded it for myself and shared it on the off chance somebody else might be interested or like to make use of it.

And that's how I tend to approach *EVERYTHING* I toss up into the wilds of the world here.  I make it, first and foremost, for myself.  Then I think.... "Gee, maybe somebody else can make use of this as either a framework or tool for their own stuff"...  Then I share it.  If it gets feedback...

In most cases, that's honestly a PAIN IN THE ASS!!  Simply because...

Most people won't comment on something that WORKS.  They comment to tell you something is BROKEN and request you sort out why it didn't work for them.  

If you're coding and looking for some form of validation and exaltation, you're in the wrong business -- or at least the wrong set of forums.  There might be some language with some user base out there that OOOHS and AAAHS every time someone shares something new with it.  Some of the Linux fanboys give me the impression that they're that extreme sometimes.  But as far as QB64 goes??  

I've never seen such worshipping or exaltation or even basic interaction with the user base.  What was it I mentioned before?  287 downloads...  and of that there were ZERO posts that said something even as simple as, "Hey!  Thanks for this!"

Steve is Amazing(tm)!!  And his skin is thick enough that he doesn't need constant feedback or validation on stuff he shares.  He just goes along, doing his own thing, and sharing it whether the rest of the world is interested in it or not.  That's what so AMAZING about Steve!!  He codes for himself, first and foremost!

And everybody who's here, joining us for this little HOBBY language, should be doing the same damn thing themselves!  

 

[ahenry3068]

People not responding is rather common and usual, in my experience, when it comes to shared code, and it's not an unique experience for anyone and nobody is being singled out and excluded.

Since Steve(tm) seems to be getting mentioned a lot as an example for some reason, lets take a moment and look at some of Steve's Stuff(tm)

https://qb64phoenix.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=22  <-- The libraries Steve has shared.  

There's 9 libraries and between them all they have 38 replies.  That's an average of... 4 per library -- and you have to keep in mind that Steve is a very interactive person and tends to respond to anyone who posts, so I'd say half of those are mine.  If you take a second moment and actually LOOK at the discussions (such as for the Text to Speech which has the most replies), you'll see that...

.... there's almost NO talk about the actual library.   Dimster posted wanting one change.  Spriggy posted suggesting Speech-to-Text, which got a few replies.  Pete posted Peteily.  But as for comments on what was shared itself?   Almost non-existent.

And yet it's had 287 downloads, which I figure is a pretty good number.  That's 287 people (or bots) who decided to make a copy of it and who haven't never had it screw up bad enough that they felt the need to jump back into the topic and scream, "YOU BROKES MY STUFF!!! RAHHRRR!!!!"

Folks respond to what the need help with or what interests them.   << This is the golden rule of posting and responses.

You can share all the C-source code in the world that you want, but the vast majority of people who come here, came here to use BASIC and not C.  They honestly couldn't care less about the backend stuff.  Sure, they know we can access it.  They're happy to see other people doing stuff with it.  But they don't want to learn a second language just to expand the flexibility of the first language.  They're just not interested, and since they don't have anything BAD to say about what you're doing, they don't have a need to say ANYTHING at all.

So you end up with stuff like this:

Steve posts a topic on 3d keyboard keys -- https://qb64phoenix.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=4465  This has 54 views and ZERO replies.  But you know what???

STEVE DOESN'T GIVE A SHIT!!

I didn't code it for anyone else to use.  I didn't code it looking for praise or pats on the head or cookies or accolades.  I didn't code it for people to snub and tell me it was a waste of time either.  I....  and this might be hard for folks to comprehend....  but  GASP!!  I coded it for myself and shared it on the off chance somebody else might be interested or like to make use of it.

And that's how I tend to approach *EVERYTHING* I toss up into the wilds of the world here.  I make it, first and foremost, for myself.  Then I think.... "Gee, maybe somebody else can make use of this as either a framework or tool for their own stuff"...  Then I share it.  If it gets feedback...

In most cases, that's honestly a PAIN IN THE ASS!!  Simply because...

Most people won't comment on something that WORKS.  They comment to tell you something is BROKEN and request you sort out why it didn't work for them.  

If you're coding and looking for some form of validation and exaltation, you're in the wrong business -- or at least the wrong set of forums.  There might be some language with some user base out there that OOOHS and AAAHS every time someone shares something new with it.  Some of the Linux fanboys give me the impression that they're that extreme sometimes.  But as far as QB64 goes??  

I've never seen such worshipping or exaltation or even basic interaction with the user base.  What was it I mentioned before?  287 downloads...  and of that there were ZERO posts that said something even as simple as, "Hey!  Thanks for this!"

Steve is Amazing(tm)!!  And his skin is thick enough that he doesn't need constant feedback or validation on stuff he shares.  He just goes along, doing his own thing, and sharing it whether the rest of the world is interested in it or not.  That's what so AMAZING about Steve!!  He codes for himself, first and foremost!

And everybody who's here, joining us for this little HOBBY language, should be doing the same damn thing themselves!  

 

DITTO !

[Unseen Machine]

I agree...and to me QB64 is dead already! But my assessment is on other users interactions and responses to my post i cant say this is everyone's interpretation...

Its whole premise was to support old QBasic code on modern systems, and for that its 90% fine...my issue is that that people who want/use it for this ideal dont grasp its true functionality! EVEVRYTHING IS GL BASED AND C++ at runtime and this either scares or annoys purist's (In my view they should use dosbox) and as such they PUSH modern devs away and think that somehow they can still compete! LIKE COME ON! (Suck it up and grow a pair and learn how to REALLY CODE!!)

I now HATE most of this community as i find them not willing to praise or even acknowledge code that isnt QB64 pure (even though it all C++!) and weve gone back to the Cola days again! (A group of biddies who ignore the people they dont like or who intimidate them!)

Again, My opinion as i know is not something anyone cares about! But i helped make this language long before 90% of the current people even knew of it!

Unseen

This looks like the pot calling the kettle black!

"QB64 is dead already!" "I now HATE most of this community..." WTH? man why hang around then? Fork it! if not happy.

And Spazzo, jesus, you two sound elitist, see yourself as superior to the majority here. Is your middle name Steve? b+LOL!
Who doesn't see themself superior to others, but most of us have good sense to leave that ship behind when posting a reply.

I am curious Unseen contribution to language before 90% knew of it. What? did Unseen create QBasic?

BTW This biddy is using AI more thanks to leader influence that happens when not in nasty mode.

So @PhilOfPerth you like this "low brow" bitchyness? I hope not.

One more thing: Happy Valentines Day my loves!

I made the code that made console exist, galleon took my declare library stuff to make that happen. Then on the fact that with his SFML port that first made Gl possible (i used and used and used it) he re-wrote the whole thing to use GL - So no i did not make it but my use of the early stages made it what it is today (You werent there so dont know!) Thats my point, YOU dont KNOW and as a long time like since v.07 i've been there! Also, as youve gathered I USE QB64 as a scripting language, i code in c++.

Me (But i still love you too!)

[bplus]

Yeah I didn't know, why I asked. so you're the guy to thank for GL.